Episode 13: How to Get The Most Out of Your B2B Webinars

Daniel Waas, Director of Marketing, @GoToWebinar Daniel Waas is the Director of Marketing for GoToWebinar, a leading web events platform with more than 50,000 customers. He's a passionate B2B digital marketer and a black belt in webinars. Daniel and his team are constantly experimenting with the cheeky goal of creating no less than the world's best webinar program. Outside work, Daniel is a geek at heart who loves LEGO, sci-fi and the occasional video game if time permits. Despite these severe dating handicaps, he was lucky enough to get married and even luckier to have a son & daughter.

PODCAST EXTRAS: How to Pick A Winning Webinar Title: https://blog.gotomeeting.com/webinar-title-formulas/

John Sheeran: [00:00:01] B2B marketing and sales can be tough to master sales cycles can be long. And buyers are notoriously difficult to close. That's why you need minds on your side whether it be to be marketing a digital agency that's helped more than 200 clients evolve their brands win more business and succeed more often.

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Dan Harris: [00:01:06] Hello and welcome back to Minds On B2B. This is Dan Harris your host.

Dan Harris: [00:01:11] And today we're going to talk about webinars because number one webinars are consistently ranked at the top of the most effective ways to reach your buyers and build thought leadership. In our episode today the topic is going to be webinar one to one and our expert on webinars today is Daniel Vaughn. He's [00:01:30] the director of marketing for the webinar which is a leading Web event platform with more than 50000 customers and he's a passionate B2B digital marketer and a black belt in webinar. So you'll be excited to have him on the show. So Daniel welcome to the show.

Daniel Waas: [00:01:46] Thanks Dan for having me. I'm really excited to be on the show today. And yes that's true webinars consistently rank as some of the most effective ways to drive not only demand but really drive engagement with people. And [00:02:00] that's you know obviously I'm with go to webinar so I have a big big piece of excitement about webinars but what they really help with and how they're unique in my mind is that they offer an opportunity for you to really engage with customers in a personal way at scale and I think there's basically no other tactic that allows you to do that if you if you think of podcasts and video there isn't really a two way going on.

Daniel Waas: [00:02:28] And so that is where I think webinars [00:02:30] are unique and why they are so effective especially as you get further down into the funnel in really building trust with your audience and driving that engagement and getting the audience to talk back to you. So I think that's why they're effective and why they should be a part of everybody's toolset and certainly why I have been drawn to them.

Daniel Waas: [00:02:51] So a little bit of background I started out in digital marketing. I was with a German company that was one of the first in e-mail marketing so the German [00:03:00] version of Yahoo basically and that was very much a startup when the internet was young. And over time I went from digital over to expand more and more into B2B and I got really excited about B2B because I feel in B2B you've got like so many little dials and levers that you can pull. But what. In a way to me was missing was a more personal way to communicate. And that's what drew me to weaponize.

Dan Harris: [00:03:30] Ok. [00:03:30] So it's interesting because you talked about the mid funnel and building trust but when you think of webinars you talk a little bit about the importance of building awareness. I mean in generating engagement even at the top of the funnel and how webinars help you do that.

Daniel Waas: [00:03:46] Yeah. So. You know obviously if you have it very much depends on the topic that you go with. So today we're talking about webinar one on one we did a big analysis of all the sessions hosted on go to [00:04:00] webinar. So we looked at about 350000 webinars run on go to webinar 2. Among other things find out which topics really work. And there are certain formulas that work really well and you'll be familiar with them from blog posts or really any type of other content listing goals work really well right. The nine ways the fifty five ways although 55 you're probably going to run out of time in the webinar. Then what works really well is basic topics right. So saying hey this is the beginners [00:04:30] guide or a 1 0 1 news jacking also works kind of well whatever the 2019 trends for x. Right. And so if you think of the top of the funnel then if you have a pretty open topic that can really help you drive names in the door at the top of the funnel.

Daniel Waas: [00:04:49] So for example we have one webinar coming up called slide tips to really make your designs pop. So that's coming up and we have we've [00:05:00] promoted it for about two weeks mostly to our own email list. We have over 3000 people registered for that. So talk about top of the funnel right. You have a topic that has broad appeal and that is great at the top of the funnel to really drive names in the door.

Daniel Waas: [00:05:15] And then as you nurture and continue the conversation with these prospects you can get closer to your product in terms of your topics.

Daniel Waas: [00:05:26] So webinar one to one obviously is a great topic [00:05:30] for us because it means that people on the other side are interested in running webinars so they're uniquely qualified for our product. And as we get further down into that we talk about specifics for specific use cases. So we might talk about how to host an amazing training on a webinar. And that really helps us qualify the audience learn about the people on the other side over time and really segment micro segment the audience that we have to have a specific message and also [00:06:00] to hand over that information to the sales team so that they can have a very tailored very detailed follow up that ends up being really personal.

Dan Harris: [00:06:11] That's wonderful. And you you mentioned two thousand people on a Webinar. That's a huge number. Then you said something around two weeks I mean how. From a website and marketing perspective and campaigns. How soon should you start marketing your webinar to get. That [00:06:30] kind of reach in the B2B space.

Daniel Waas: [00:06:34] So we've looked at that too. So we looked at when did people sign up for this webinar. So three hundred fifty thousand webinars. That was one piece of analysis that we did. Then we looked at another sample where we looked at eight hundred fifty thousand people that had signed up for webinars and we looked at when did they sign up. And it turns out that about 15 percent of people that signed up for webinars do so two and more weeks in [00:07:00] advance or three weeks four weeks in advance. Then it's interesting that up to 30 percent of people sign up on the very last day. And so what that means for promotion is basically that you should start as early as you can. Sometimes obviously there are restrictions right. We send multiple messages to our email lists so we don't always have time to run a promotion for four weeks. So in this case we started we started at the two week mark which I think you know you're missing 15 percent. So that means you've got enough [00:07:30] people left to have a meaningful promotion. But ideally if you have the time frame start early. Start four weeks out and then don't forget to remind until the very last day. So the majority of people sign up the day before and the day off the webinar so. Make sure you keep the promotions going until the very end.

Dan Harris: [00:07:51] So you tell the audience what you're going to talk about in Webinar 101.

Daniel Waas: [00:07:54] Yes. Well so I mean as with anything you want to give beginners a [00:08:00] good understanding of what the different elements are that are required or whatever you're teaching. So in this case for a webinar if I think about a webinar I think about the the process for a webinar right. So I will have to plan and prepare the webinar and I will have to find a date that ideally works for for as many people as possible. I will have to come up with a topic I will have to create the content for it. Then I'm thinking of promoting the webinar right now. Great. I have a time set. I [00:08:30] have an idea of what I'm going to talk about now how am I going to get people to actually show up on the day. So there's a whole process to promoting it. Next up is actually hosting the event. How can I make it engaging. How can I make sure that people actually stay on for the whole duration of the webinar. How do I deliver value and actionable insights and really get people to lean in and take that information in so that is engaging and hosting the webinar. And then after that [00:09:00] how do I follow up. How do I make sure that I turn that engagement that I had in the live event into a benefit for my business. How do I turn that into leads how I turn that how do I turn that into sales. How do I turn that into conversation into conversations that really lead to an outcome for me as a business. So those are those are the big parts that I think about when I talk about webinars and when I look at the one or one it's really hey this is the process. [00:09:30] Here are the say the 20 percent that are gonna give you 80 percent of the results so that's that's how I think about a one to one is give them the information that will help them achieve the majority of the result without making it too complex.

Dan Harris: [00:09:46] Yeah no that's it. That's a great statistic to throw out there and that was kind of leading into my next question. Of the processes that you've defined what are those 20 percent that give you 80 percent results.

Daniel Waas: [00:10:00] Yes. [00:10:00] Well Here they are, so your goes in terms of topics you already talked about one important thing in that is coming up with a topic that resonates right. So if you think about what resonates people you know on the other side. If you're talking B2B you're going to have a professional and they're their main their main needs are learning something to improve their day to day performance in business site. So they're going to want to know [00:10:30] how to improve and apply this to their work. So what works accordingly is how to as a topic. So teach them something. What works is anything related to industry news and industry trends. And those are two of you know if you're again going for 20 percent that get you that 80 percent. These are two areas to home in on so either a how to topic or something that's trending that's completely new to your industry an industry trend. So [00:11:00] these are the topics the general topics that you should home in on. And then we talked a little bit about titles right. So what works really well is lists that just works well in general what also works is anything that has how to win the title always the winner. So you can improve your general webinar titled just by adding a how to framing it and how to one to one trends.

Daniel Waas: [00:11:23] Those are all good topics and we actually have a pulse and we'll share that in the show notes on how to pick a winning webinar [00:11:30] title. So that is the setup right. The 20 percent you need to have a great topic and you need a package in the title and actually draws people in. Now the next thing that you should do is find a date and time that works. And that one's actually easy. So again we've done research on this. There are three days in the week they work roughly equally well It's Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday. So host all your webinars on Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday because these are the days that generally work best. Now in terms [00:12:00] of timing if you're in the U.S. you should do it at 10 a.m. or 11 a.m. Pacific West Coast time and accordingly on the East Coast so these times are generally the times that have the most attendees that work the best. And yes you're going to have a lot of competition by other webinars in that timeframe. But let's be honest we're not attending webinars every day so the likelihood of you hitting your audience our best on those days and at those times of you're [00:12:30] gone 20 percent for 80 percent. Then there you go. Those are the times and days that you should schedule for.

Daniel Waas: [00:12:37] All right. So that kind of sums up. How you prepare and plan. Right now you have to actually create content and as you think about content one mistake that many many people do is that they go pretty hard on their pitch and they go pretty soft on the content. So what you want to do instead is you really want to deliver value. You want to deliver actionable [00:13:00] insights that people can take away and that they can use immediately in their day to day work. So save the pitch for later. Build credibility and trust first by delivering really great content. Something that. Think about the way I think about my slides. When I started creating content for a webinar is average insights per minute. How can I maximize the average insights that I drive per minute and that's you hear me on the podcast today. That's why I talk in statistics a lot and what [00:13:30] are the stats and what are the takeaways so that you on the other side have an immediate take away when you implement when you implement what I taught. So you should really think about this as an opportunity to teach and not necessarily as a legion opportunity. The Legion will follow. But the important thing is that you focus on high quality of the content itself.

Dan Harris: [00:13:51] I think that's incredibly important. Are the statistics any better if it's two individuals delivering the webinar. Does that help in any way or does that hinder that [00:14:00] helps.

Daniel Waas: [00:14:01] And you should mix up the format. So I sometimes do topics where I run the entire webinar but what we do more frequently is that we have a guest on a guest speaker and that we both contribute to the event and I'll I'll get to that when we talk about promotion but it really makes sense to have multiple people on and at a minimum try. If you have a team try to have someone be the moderator just to mix it up because it can [00:14:30] be kind of monotone listening to one person and the audience leans in whenever there is a change. So changing it up with a moderator having Q and A all throughout and responding to that that is helpful in terms of drawing people back in. So we like to mix up the content I'd say probably more than two thirds of our webinars are run in a multi presenters setup where I have guest speakers and we talk about a topic jointly in this section of building content.

Dan Harris: [00:14:58] Is there a process you go through that [00:15:00] the listeners could follow and how to build that content build a slide out. If you're collaborating someone yeah.

Daniel Waas: [00:15:07] So obviously if I if I do it by myself or even if I do it with with a guest speaker I usually start with an outline. So I have the topic that I want to talk about. I have it encapsulated in a title now what are the three to nine things Max that I want to deliver. Right. Nine is kind of stretching it. You're going to run into [00:15:30] limitations on time right. So but if you for example when I go webinar I want to one I'm gonna cover the four phases and that starts building my outline. So and I feel like that's helpful when you have a guest speaker on as well. If you have an opinion on what the rough outline for the event should be and then you can work with the guest speaker to home in on what the final outline is but start rough. Hey what are the main [00:16:00] topics that I want to cover. A good way to think about that is as you capture your topic. Think about what's in it for your audience right. We talked about teaching and we talk about making it actionable. Think about phrasing that in a way of what's in it for them. And an easy way to do that is just coming up with a quick bullet list of. In this webinar you will learn and do three to five bullets that gives you a rough idea of what you think the takeaways are going to be and that helps you [00:16:30] structure your outline and determine what con you want to put in that outline.

Dan Harris: [00:16:35] It's good advice that sounds like a lot like learning theory and writing teaching objectives.

Daniel Waas: [00:16:41] Yeah. Very related to that because that's that's the mindset that you need. The mindset is to try and teach rather than try and milk information out of people like that's that's the wrong way of going about things. The other thing that we haven't talked about is getting on camera right. You should always be on camera. [00:17:00] So there are unfortunately 60 percent more than 60 percent of presenters. When we've done a survey I say oh well you know I have a face for radio I don't really want to get on camera and that's a mistake. You should get on camera because on the flipside when we asked the audience when we asked attendees. What do you think of web cam video. The presenter to be on webcam is that distracting or is it engaging. Eighty six percent say it's very or somewhat engaging. [00:17:30] Right. So and it doesn't really matter. You know this is not you're not going to be on TV. This is this is to make you approachable and to build a relationship and it's much easier to build a relationship with someone if you can actually see them look them in the eye while they're presenting if you can see all their quirks and I that's what I tell our customers. The courts are a good thing. Right. You want to come across as the as a real person because that's what people do that's what people relate to or you relate to real people you don't relate [00:18:00] to a business Web site. And this is we've talked about this earlier right. This is where I think webinars are unique. You have an opportunity to connect on a personal level something that your Web site can never do your Web site is always going to be somewhat artificial and you may have some somewhat artificial language even if you do it well. But being there on video yourself. You can't help but be you know. So they recommend everybody to get on webcam.

Dan Harris: [00:18:27] I agree with you. Great advice. And it's that [00:18:30] whole three steps right. Get to know me. Get to like me and then trust me and do business. And I think you Yeah webinars give you that ability if you're utilizing that video component. I love it. Content is so important when you think about content from a visual perspective on a slide. I know you're going to be doing a slide presentation but can you can you talk a little bit about the importance of sly design as it relates to content and definitions.

Daniel Waas: [00:18:58] Yes. So think about the [00:19:00] people on the other side they might be on their mobile. They're going to be distracted right. They're going to have Facebook and email and everything else going on so you want to keep like My general rule for a rule for slides is one idea one idea per slide right. So go with heavy visuals very little text. Go for at least 30 points in terms of text size and just keep it light on the copy and heavy on the images. [00:19:30] That has two benefits one. It's going to make your slides look way better. They're going to look striking and be it also helps you in delivering your content to structure it like a visual roadmap. So you have a picture that encapsulates the idea of what you want to talk about on that slide. And that helps you stay on track and keep focused. And it also helps your audience stay with you instead of reading ahead. Right. You know the typical slide presentations here are 15 bullets on the slide. [00:20:00] I'm going to click through all the bullets and everybody is going to read ahead and nobody's actually with me. So don't do that focus on just simple image. Short headline and then the delivery is up to you and the delivery is really where the value is. So that's that's how I would think about that. Again we have a webinar coming up on that. It may be over when this episode airs. But in that case even better we're going to have a recording of it. So we'll talk all about how to create amazing [00:20:30] slide presentations webinars and a webinar. So be sure to check out the notes and we'll have a link handy for that.

Dan Harris: [00:20:38] Fantastic. So is there anything else that a new person. He's looking to do webinars. Need to be aware.

Daniel Waas: [00:20:47] Yes. If you think about promotion the best way to promote is number one. Email Email is the number one tactic that is going to drive registrations for you so. In an [00:21:00] ideal world you already have an email list of customers and prospects and that list is going to be the prime driver for the audience for your webinar. So so that's why I focused initially on on the middle of the funnel because that means you're already have someone who's engaged. So if you if you're starting with an audience of zero webinars can be one way to get people onto your lists in the first place. But it's probably not the best way to [00:21:30] build a list. E-mail number one tactic. So if we look at how much that drives for us e-mail drives over 80 percent of our registrations come from email. Now the other interesting part to that is the second best way is someone else's e-mail. So it's also e-mail. So that's why Cole marketing is is so important and is a great way to amplify the reach of your webinars and something that we do really frequently will find someone who [00:22:00] has an adjacent topic to what we talk about so obviously being go to webinar.

Daniel Waas: [00:22:04] We talk about webinars. So think of adjacent topics adjacent topics could be landing pages. So there are a lot of landing page tools out there that we partner with. Think of email marketing right. All these emails the follow ups all of that needs to be delivered. So we have a good overlap in audience with email marketing companies. So we actively reach out to companies that have a similar audience and an adjacent product. And we call market. [00:22:30] So basically that means we will invite our list to the webinar. The partner invites their list. We bring a speaker from our side and the speaker from their side and we tackle a topic that is relevant to both our audiences and so e-mail and co marketing. If you do nothing else these are great ways to drive the audience for your webinars. Of course you should share it on social and put it on your Web site but realistically if you only have time for one thing e-mail to your list. If you have time for two things. Find a partner to do it with and that is really [00:23:00] going to help you have the best impact. Again thinking Corrado principle investing 20 percent to get the 80 OK OK.

Dan Harris: [00:23:09] So promotion. We talked over a little bit about how how far in advance that you should do that. You said you know three to four weeks out. Two weeks was still good. You get the percentage of those type of things again. Now when you get those lists how do you re-engage that audience from a promotions perspective to come back [00:23:30] and watch the on demand version of the webinar.

Daniel Waas: [00:23:35] Yeah that's a great question. So. So the average attendance rate for a marketing type webinar is between 35 and 40 percent. So I'd say if you're you're getting 30 or 40 percent you're doing pretty well. If you're getting 35 percent that's probably about average of you're getting less than 30 percent. You could probably improve a little bit but what's what's interesting to me is that if we we've looked at the top 100 webinars hosted on go to webinar [00:24:00] and about 40 percent of these top 100 have a terrible attendance rate they may have an attendance rate that is like 15 percent 18 percent. So why is that. Well that is because they're really great at driving mass registrants. And so so in the end I feel promotion and reaching as many potential registrants as possible is going to help you more than working on attendance rates low attendance rate getting it beyond 40 percent is is really really hard. That [00:24:30] said the one thing that you should do is make sure that you send reminder e-mail site and usually every webinar tool should make this really easy for you. They're automated you can set your schedule the schedule that we found works the best for us and pretty much for anybody I know that this webinar is a week before a day before an hour before that really works well as a as a reminder cadence for anybody who's already signed up to make sure that they can attend and the number [00:25:00] one reason. So when we talk to people that haven't attended the webinar of why they haven't attended the number one reason is while I have a conflict I have a conflict.

Daniel Waas: [00:25:09] I have another meeting at that time. So if you have a topic that you know is going to work great. And if you have the time and create an easy way to expand your audience is by just hosting the same event twice hosted on a Wednesday at 10 and then hosted on the Thursday at 11:00 and offer these two options at sign up and you will maximize attendance [00:25:30] because more people will find a slot that fits their calendar. The other thing that you should always do is as you invite people and as you get them to your landing page talk about how you will make a replay a recording of the webinar available to anybody who signs up to maximize your sign up rate even if they don't attend because the number two reason why people don't attend is 26 percent say. While I didn't attend because I didn't want to attend in the first place I want to watch this on demand. I don't want to be there alive. [00:26:00] I don't have the time to be there alive. I don't want to be there for an hour. I just want to grab the highlights and so there is a significant part of the audience that has no intention of ever attending live. They're just in it to get the on demand version so make sure that you Always record your webinars and always make these on demand recordings available until people up front and you're going to be recording this and you're going to share the recording out with anybody who signs up.

Dan Harris: [00:26:23] It's interesting you said that's a 26% say they just want to grab the highlights so they don't want to they don't want everyone you can and [00:26:30] I don't like all podcast we put in show notes. So when you do that do you also include. Where do you recommend including transcripts.

Daniel Waas: [00:26:38] Yes. So I would totally recommend it. I feel like it's it's not something that most people do. Usually there's just the recording there's no transcript. And funnily enough as I'm being go to we have just released a platform that does just that and we have transcripts in beta so as part of go to webinar as part of a go to webinar subscription you get something called go to stage [00:27:00] which is basically a platform that hosts all of your recordings so you get a page that has all your past recorded content on it. You can group it you can drag and drop stuff around you can feature things and each of these. So again in beta right now we have transcripts which transcribes everything that was said on the webinar makes it available on the replay page so that as people watch your replay they can actually look through the transcript they can even click into the transcript and start [00:27:30] the webinar. At that moment.

Daniel Waas: [00:27:33] And it also provides a highlight reel of the most interesting moments in the webinar screenshots so that people can also use the screenshots to navigate the webinar and so all of that is for the 26 percent of people that say hell and they want to watch that on demand. How can I make sure that I quickly grabbed the most interesting stuff so that you can go to webinar go to stage as a way to host all that stuff and then transcripts and beta right now in general availability due [00:28:00] later this year so that you can actually get the full transcript and make it super easy for people to consume you're on demand content.

Daniel Waas: [00:28:08] I'm glad you asked.

Dan Harris: [00:28:09] Yeah. I'm thrilled to hear that and I really love the fact that when you're talking and communicating to our listeners to your communicating why you're doing it and you said earlier think about the Web and our guests and to know that 26 percent is there and then you build out innovation within the platform to make [00:28:30] it easier. Kudos to you and the team. That's fantastic. Well we need to wrap up here in a few minutes. Those are your one last thing that you'd like to share the audience would help them get started with webinars and to be more informed as they go about it.

Daniel Waas: [00:28:47] Yes there's one crucial thing to actually get results and that one crucial thing is we're doing these because works. Expecting a business outcome. So to get to that business outcome you need a hook [00:29:00] and that hook we recommend to be somewhere two thirds into the webinar. So after you've built that credibility after you've delivered those high actionable insights per minute. You basically now have permission from the audience to tell them how you can help them further. And that is where you're hooked. Your call to action comes in. And so the way we do this is we use polls. Polls are an essential part of webinars because aid gets you helps you get a better read on the audience so we usually start [00:29:30] one very early that ask a question like hey are you a beginner intermediate or advanced so that I can get an understanding of the composition of the audience and can tailor my delivery to that. This also helps the audience to lean in at the moment to interact with the tool the moment they ask a question participate in the poll. They're more likely to stick around until the end. The other great way to use polls is to segment the audience so any information that will be helpful for you in your follow up is a great thing to put into [00:30:00] a poll. And the last way to use them is that hook that I just talked about and that basically is the way we do this is we deliver all those actionable insights and then we say hey are you interested in having a one on one conversation with us about how we can help you.

Daniel Waas: [00:30:18] Improve your webinar programs and we get them. Again we launch a poll that says either yes I'm interested in having a one on one conversation with someone from go to webinar [00:30:30] or No thanks I'm good for now and we do the same for the partners. If we have a co hosted webinar we have the same question for the partner. Hey are you interested in a one to one conversation with a partner and that is prime material for your follow up. So these are the people that we prioritized for follow up and reach back out and engage with and have a conversation and that is why webinars are great to drive business results is because you get an understanding of who is in the market for your solution right now and you get people [00:31:00] to raise their hand about having a continued conversation and so that is the last crucial element to webinars is make sure that you have a hook. And make sure that you can use that to follow up with the parts of the audience that are the most engaged.

Dan Harris: [00:31:17] Well Daniel thank you so much. I mean you've delivered tremendous value on the podcast today. Daniel if anyone wants to get in contact with you learn more about go to webinar or maybe even attend webinar. [00:31:30] How do they do that.

Daniel Waas: [00:31:31] So there's three good ways. Number one is get in touch with me. I'm on Linkedin. So LinkedIn is the best way to connect with me. So if you want to connect personally just hit me up on LinkedIn at Daniel Waas and we're going to be sharing the links to my profiles in the show notes. A good way to understand of what's going on and go to webinar is just to follow me on Twitter.

Daniel Waas: [00:31:52] So Daniel Waas on Twitter. That's where I read all about what we found in the webinars that are coming up. And then lastly [00:32:00] check out the go to webinar blog and sign up for blog updates because that's where we share all of this type of information that I just talked about regularly and and push that out and help you understand how to do webinars better. So those are the three ways.

Dan Harris: [00:32:16] All right. Thank you so much and guests. If you have any questions for me or you'd like to be a guest on the show. Reach out to me via email. Dan got here. Find Don dot com or you can find me on LinkedIn at ABC [00:32:30] here. All right Daniel thank you so much. Really appreciate your time and I look forward to having you on another episode. And we talk a little bit pres-how about actually doing something around like this.

Dan Harris: [00:32:42] That would be fantastic. Thanks a lot Dan for having me. Have a great time. Thanks everybody for listening and I hope to connect with you soon.

Dan Harris: [00:32:52] All right. Until next time. This is Dan Harris.

Dan Harris: [00:32:54] Stay curious. Connect often. and Learn Always.

John Sheeran: [00:32:57] Thanks for listening to today's Minds On B2B [00:33:00] podcast. If you like what you heard today please subscribe.

John Sheeran: [00:33:04] Also feel free to share this episode with your peers and colleagues so we can keep bringing quality content from the best minds in B2B. Until next time from all of us and my son. Have a great week.


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